chuubanite

vitubium is an element that exists in the setting of /vtwbg/. vitubium has the ability to bridge the gap between our dimension and the conceptual dimension through magic quanta. it will quickly bond with any nearby material if in its pure form and is therefore highly unstable and dangerous. when it bonds with other material, it is called chuubanite, and is much more stable. chuubanite can have affinities depending on the material it is bonded to, and what concept from the conceptual realm that material is associated with. the conceptual realm is made up of all concepts. each thread, represented by each nation, represents a different concept that is important to it, such as a chuuba or genera of vtubing, etc. each concept identity is associated with a physical interaction on the scale of the material the vitubium bonded with that can be activated through the formation of symbols, the contact of other substances, or passively from decay. these physical interactions must be physically possible but can otherwise be anything the writer wants within reason.
all chuubanite can be made to release energy in the form of light, heat, rotation, and linear motion under certain conditions. the natural formation of chuubanite is limited by nearby chuubanite that has already formed, and the identity of nearby magic quanta, or energy that carries the identity of a certain concept, causing vitubium nearby to have a bias in favor of forming connections of that affinity. most concepts can be broken down into base concepts, the simpler the concept, the more powerful it can be. magics such as teleportation, (magical) weapons of mass destruction, indestructible materials, indestructible forcefields, or any other forms of “unmovable objects”, time stopping, unlimited or unconstrained resurrection, immortality, invulnerability, anti-magic without workarounds or drawbacks, “unextinguishable fire” and any other forms of “unstoppable forces”, etc… should not be available to any faction.


27621618

I want to take part in this.

  1. Hard Limits.

a. Space-time bending,and by extension, manipulation of gravity. (Most of the things people would want to use gravity or anti-gravity chuubanite for can be also achieved with by having chuubanite just generate a force.)

b. No blatantly breaking the laws of physics. No creation of energy, endless acceleration, acceleration beyond the speed of light limit, or perpetual motion machines. No immovable objects or unstoppable forces.
Portals (like wormholes) theoretically possible but beyond the ability of any nation or mortal entity in the current setting. Thus can be used to explain people getting transported in and out of /vt/-world.

c. No anti-chuubanite chuubaite, or anti-magic, at least without severe drawbacks. There could be materials that have anti-magical properties, but these should be composed of ordinary matter, or some other form of matter. No thread should have the ability to disable another thread's magic while using their own magic.

d. There is no way to accelerate the rate of decay for chuubanite. Thus I propose the earlier vote of chuubanite decaying faster outside a thread's borders be retconned. On the flip side, there could be ways to slow down the rate of decay, but...

e. There is no way to completely stop the decay of chuubanite, outside of the object depleting all of its magical energy through decay or active use.

  1. The barrage of questions

a. Chuubanite decays slowly. The decay takes the form of the chuubanite object radiating it's energy away in the form of light, heat, and some sort of a magical radiation.

b. Active use does not affect decay, active use taps directly into the chuubanite object's energy reserves and depletes them.

c. In my opinion, the idea of chuubanite decaying faster outside a thread's territory should be scrapped.
c.1. If the idea isnt scrapped, I propose the decay is unaffected, but the chuubanite object slowly synchronizes with the surrounding chuubanite. E.g., A /morig/ affinity chuubanite left in /risu/ would slowly over decades or centuries switch to /risu/ affinity, UNLESS this is somehow avoided. >>27612845 (You) This is how I imagined the synchronization working with the magic quanta and their waveforms. Not the chuubanite object decaying faster, but slowly changing its affiliation.
c.2. If above would be made canon, there would have to be a way to counter the affinity change. Perhaps a specific glyph, or magical rite.

d. One concept can have multiple effects. Unique effects, not so sure about. I'd imagine many chuubanite types could have similar abilities, but the mixture of their effects may not be the same.

e. Small amounts of chuubanite do not interact with each other in any relevant way. A synchronization event only happens when a small piece of chuubanite X is brought close to a massive piece of chuubanite Y.

f. I'd imagine you can theoretically make chuubanite alloys, or chuubanite objects with different types of chuubanite.

Further more, I'd like the first proposed law of https://rentry.org/buk5e be left canon or made canon, or some version of it is made canon.

As for the new document, I dont think there is need to explain the magic quanta or any of the more complex stuff. The document should begin as easily understandable and simple, so that it is more reader-friendly than the current ones.

I do think the more advanced stuff should be included in the document, but they should be near the end of it, and it should be made clear that understanding the more complicated stuff is not a requirement for using the magic system.

The beginning of the document should explain the mechanics in simple and easily digestible terms.


27612845

i think the guy who did the magic quanta rentry did a pretty good job at explaining that part. basically, there is a quantum field of magic particles called magic quanta that can only interact with chuubanite, and assuming i understand it correctly, the chuubanite is able to store and stabilize the magic quanta, energizing the chuubanite, but it doesn't do it perfectly so some of it is lost in the form of passive magic radiation for lack of a better word. the surface area of the chuubanite is the biggest factor in how fast it decays passively, and when in use through activator substances, or glyphs, the energy is spent on creating an effect, but in order to explain the vote stuff, it decays slightly faster in places where relevant magic quanta wavelengths are less common (each wavelength is associated with a concept in the conceptual realm).
each concept can be said to be made up of multiple smaller concepts, and chuubanite can break them up to get an effect based on the affinity, but i don't think there would be multiple effects of the same wavelength. you might be able to have unique effects if you combine chuubanites of two different affinities, and this might be an area where the transmutation system can still be relevant, but there hasn't been too much discussion of that yet, i don't think. most of the discussion hasn't been about magic quanta, since it is both the most recent, and arguably most complicated entry to chuubanite, but it explains the connection between our world and the conceptual realm in a much better way.
i think, for simplicity's sake, we could explain it in terms of vitubium/chuubanite: the substance, magic quanta: the mechanism, and the conceptual realm: the magic. the conceptual realm can be compared to warhammer's warp, in it there are gods associated with all concepts, but some gods are more powerful based on how influential they are throughout the universe, and how much belief/dedication there is to their concepts. chuubas in our system would take on that role, though there would also be concepts that do not represent chuubas for threads that don't have one. chuubanite exists in all realms as far as i understand it in this setting, so magic quanta would have to not only exist in all realms, but would in fact need to connect them.
theoretically, if you had enough chuubanite, you should be able to create a portal from one realm to another in the same way you ca theoretically make a worm hole in our universe if you had an absolutely absurd amount of energy, that is what happened when we went from /jp/ to /vt/, which had to have required a lot of chuubanite to work, and probably only worked because it involved a janny, the pantheon of gods that preside over specific realms instead of many for lack of a better way to describe it. magic quanta has a lot to do with quantum mechanics, which i don't really understand myself, but he said quantum tunnelling was important to how it worked, so i wonder if that might be how chuubanite is able to connect realms and what not.
one problem seems to be that i keep thinking of new ideas to try to connect everything together instead of just remembering all the details to archive. i don't know if i'm getting to be like the /nasa/rep but i do find it easier to remember ideas when they become so integral to each other that bringing one up necessarily brings into focus another. my addiction to lore leads to lore density, which hopefully will make things easier, instead of making them harder. i'll post this much and see what needs correcting or rephrasing i suppose.


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https://archive.alice.al/vt/thread/23436882/#23535405

horniness is a parent concept to all kinks and sexuality, which is a countable infinite. countable infinites are smaller than uncountable infinites. emotion includes horniness, and therefore is it's parent concept. concepts can have multiple parent concepts, like a stock market and a group of virtual anime avatars, though some parent concepts are less influential on the concept and are therefore looser parents, same can be said for child concepts. the number of child concepts of any given concept represents it's vagueness. a single unit of vagueness (v) represents x number of child concepts. the maximum size of a conceptual cylinder's radius is (p) and represents how much fuel is burned in a single unit of time (t). p has an inverse relationship to v, with p decreasing as v increases, but the rate that p decreases decays at an exponential rate (d). even if v is equal to a countable or uncountable infinite, p cannot go below 0. the height of the cylinder increases depending on commonness and the radius of the cylinder (c(p-(v/d))) and represents fuel (f). f is equal to some function of c, and is not affected by the height of the cylinder. commonness refers to how prevalent a concept is in the universe at any given time. c can fluctuate with time, such as the waxing and waning of the moon going through the lunar cycle. f decreases at a rate of (p-(v/d))t. i'll post this and add to it later, but i am pretty sure some of my equations are mathematically incorrect. if someone could help me fix them, that would be appreciated. sorry for being a dumbass. if anyone has any questions about what all this means, just ask.


so i want the shrinking of the radius to be gradual, and to slowly approach 0. if you imagined a graph, it would be a curved negative correlation between the number of units of vagueness (broadness now, since that is more accurate) and the radius. the size of the radius should not affect the mass of the cylinder, so changing the radius will change the height accordingly. the mass of the cylinder represents the total amount of fuel. the size of the radius can be thought of a pan that boils water on a stove. the larger the radius, the more surface area the pan has to boil the water, the more water starts to boil and turn into steam. the time it takes for the water immediately touching the surface to turn to steam is one unit of time, and the height is how much water there is to be turned into steam. height is related to how present a concept is. the waxing and waning of the moon is a good example. the more present the concept is, the larger the height of the cylinder at that given moment.


so, instead of calling it a cylinder, think of it as a container for fuel that you put on a stove of infinite size, there are kettles, pans, and things in between. a pan with sides that go up to the height of a kettle is called a pot, and it can contain more fuel than either a pan, or a kettle of the same radius and height, respectively. the radius is the surface area of the container that touches the stove, and thus the area where heat is transferred from the stove to the container, and finally to the fuel. how much fuel can the container contain? it's not just how tall it is, because a sufficiently large pan could contain more fuel than the average kettle. if we had x ounces of fuel, and we decided to represent the size of pans, pots, and kettles that would be at max capacity with exactly that amount of fuel, we would notice that the height would decrease at an exponential rate as the radius increased, and vice versa, and that the larger the radius, the more surface area for the fuel to come into contact with the stove on. this means the fuel burns faster the larger the radius is. as we reach absurdity in scale, we'll notice that the largest possible radius that contains the fuel is a flat disk that is only as wide as the fuel is spread out, so there is a limit to how large the radius can be, whereas the largest possible height that still contains the fuel would approach infinity as the radius gets closer and closer to 0, never fully reaching 0 because then there would be nowhere to contain the fuel. in a similar way as the square-cube law, the closer the radius gets to 0, the faster the height approaches infinity.
the fuel represents the energy from chuubanite of any given affinity. the surface area represents how fast the energy can be converted into magic power (steam) and is affected by how broad the chuubanite's concept is. the radius decays at an exponential rate in relation to broadness. the height represents how long it would take for chuubanite of that affinity to run out of energy and is affected by how present the concept is in the universe at any given time. this analogy exists to determine the strength, and longevity of the ability of chuubanite of any given affinity while in use. chuubanite with a highly specified concept that is highly present in the universe would have a pot (large radius, large height) shaped container, and would be able to burn a large amount of fuel over a long period of time. a highly broad concept that is highly present would have a kettle (small radius, large height) shaped container, and would be able to burn a small amount of fuel over a long period of time. a specific concept that is not very present would have a pot (large radius, small height) shaped container, and would be able to burn a large amount of fuel over a short period of time. a broad concept that is not very present would have a cup (small radius, small height) shaped container, and would be able to burn a small amount of fuel over a short period of time.
there are a few variables that have yet to be defined, some that are unique to every concept, and therefore must be done for every new type of chuubanite. 1) the value of a single unit of each variable is left undefined. ideally, we will decide on a specific number for each variable that will then become axioms that will be used whenever they are necessary going forward. 2) every chuubanite ability will require a different amount of energy to have a different degree of an effect, this may be determined by balancing as decided by the thread. 3) every chuubanite ability will last for a different amount of time, this can be mitigated in-universe by explanations on how it's ability can be used in a more energy-efficient manner. 4) every concept will have a different degree of broadness, this will be determined by how concisely a concept is described, or "how many parent concepts are required for the existence of said concept". 5) every concept will have a different degree of presence, this will be determined by how expansively the concept can be applied, or "how many child concepts require the existence of said concept".


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this analogy exists only to determine the strength, and longevity of the -ability of chuubanite- of any given affinity -while in use-. so the energy of the chuubanite only effects how much fuel there is. correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought vitubium the ore converts into a different element when it's supply of magic quanta decays while in use like unstable molecules decay into different substances at the rate decided by their half-life until they become inert, whereas the magic quanta itself decays into a different affinity passively like waves harmonizing with their surroundings. i'll admit i understood the nuclear interpretation of chuubanite a little more than the quantum one, but i'm still trying to figure it out. if you can find a different analogy that serves the same function and is easier to explain, i'd be fine with it. ty and hope to hear from you again soon.


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let me reiterate what i said last thread so that it is more accurate. sorry for how late this is, btw. i was doing irl stuff.

The mass of the vitubium sample being used would presumably put a limit on the height that the concept's presence would normally give.

the mass of the ore shouldn't affect the height, only the fuel. each molecule of chuubanite is represented by the fuel. the height represents how long it takes for that fuel to be spent, and the radius represents how much power that fuel can produce, as well as how much of it is spent, in one unit of time. if we said x molecules of chuubanite is one unit of fuel, then height will determine how much of that single unit of fuel will last in one unit of time. but otherwise it will not affect the shape of the analogous container. i might be getting the math wrong in my head, though, so if i am wrong about something, please tell me.

I imagine that the vitubium is normally only active for relatively short periods so for our purposes we can most likely treat variables like presence and broadness as constants in our equations

broadness is a constant of the concept, presence is theoretically dynamic, but for the purposes of stuff like storytelling and what not, it will be treated as a constant unless there are obvious cycles that the concept goes through that would make it more or less present, see the all too often cited lunar cycle example. concepts with widely shifting degrees of presence can be taken advantage of when their concept is at it's least present, in which case their chuubanite will run out of energy faster due to less energy.


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ok.

27760053

scale in terms of realms and magic basically means all the magic has to be done in the conceptual realm. chuubanite is unique in it's ability to interact with magic quanta, and while i can't decide whether or not magic quanta should be the fabric of the conceptual realm itself, or the universal realm that connects all other realms, it is the case that magic quanta is the entrance and exit points to the black box that converts stuff like activator substances interacting with chuubanite, or chuubanite forming glyphs into an actual physical effect. the stimuli must go through the magic quanta and back in order to turn into an effect, yet everything in the conceptual realm is a concept, and all concepts are broken into their lesser components when they enter the conceptual realm, so unless a glyph was designed to only effect chuubanite that is active in response to a specific activator substance, or unless chuubanite that formed an active glyph of a specific type was the activator substance of another interaction, ie unless it was tied to their concept itself, there would be no inherent conceptual tie between an activator substance being active, and a glyph being formed, so you could not hope that a glyph or activator substance would be able to recognize when glyphs or activator substances are nearby in the physical realm, since their location relative to each other would be lost in translation going into the conceptual realm. it would probably be easy enough to just say it doesn't have to work like that, but i see it as the inherent, unique mechanisms of each dimension, and how they are so different from each other. treating the conceptual realm as a physical realm with walking concepts seems a bit boring to me.
for the archive, i'll restate my point that antman shouldn't be able to hit people with the force of a fully grown man while he is at the scale of an ant because the scale of an ant is too dissimilar to that of a man to translate into each other evenly. a dimension of conceptual existence where magic could be conceived into existence wouldn't operate the same way as a dimension of physical existence where everything works in terms of physical reality, save for the medium that intersects them, that being chuubanite.


on an unrelated note and moving to the idea of parent and child concepts, i simplified it enough in that one long explanation of it, but parent concepts are concepts that are required for another concept to possibly make sense, and child concepts are concepts that require another concept to possibly make sense. i figure, going into the future, an easy misconception would be to assume the language used to describe a concept is the concept itself, so to address that potential problem early, and to simultaneously give an example, i'll use the concept of concepts and languages as an example. you might think that the fact that i am using language to explain a concept means language is a requirement for the formation of a concept, however the explaining of a concept is not the concept itself, and if i had no conception of what it was i was trying to explain, i would in fact have no language adequate to explain it in the first place, and while i can conceptualize things in private, any attempt to put to language a non-concept would result in incoherent jargon, hardly qualified to be considered language at all, so we can see from this that language would be a child concept, that is, it requires the existence of the concept of concepts in order to possibly make sense, with the parent concept naturally being concepts.
what then is the parent concept of concepts? one could say that a universe is necessary for something to come into being that is capable of conceptualizing or being conceptualized, and therefore say that the universe is a requirement for concepts to exist, but while that is true, it is a few steps too far removed, as even with a universe, there must be something more specific to be able to conceptualize something. namely, you need consciousness to form concepts, and furthermore, you'd need a brain or something approaching it that is capable of consciousness to make any sense of that. after some loops of defining requirements for each concept, you'd eventually make it to the universe, depending on the path you followed, but depending on the concept, there might be more requirements than just one. for instance, we previously established that concepts are a requirement for language, however it would be incorrect to say that all that is required for language to exist is the ability to conceptualize something. if we define language as the expression of a concept or group of concepts through the use of a behavior or sequence of behaviors meant to establish mutual understanding (the definition could be more refined than this, i'm just giving it as an example off the top of my head) then behavior, the potential for mutual understanding, and even the existence of another conscious being capable of comprehending the concept could arguably be said to be a requirement for language to make any sense, since if there was no behavior that could convey a concept, or if there was no potential for mutual understanding of the concept, or if there was nobody to understand the concept, then there would be no point in having language at all.
all 5 parent concepts are necessary for language as a concept to possibly make any sense, and so we know the number of parent concepts the concept of language has is on the order of 5. maybe you can reduce that by finding a shared concept between two or more of the 5 concepts that effectively makes one or more of them a restating of another, or maybe you could find yet more concepts that are absolutely necessary for the concept of language to not be incoherent, maybe the definition of language will be refined to describe language more accurately, which might then imply a greater, or lesser number of parent concepts than what we currently have, but for now we'll just say it's on the order of 5. note that specific behaviors, such as a specific vocalization such as the word "the", while requiring language to make sense to us, don't require language to possibly make sense as a concept, depending on how you define it. furthermore, notice that the definition only affects how many parent or child concepts a concept has in so far as how many concepts are implied to exist by the language, no matter how verbose or succinct, the concepts that arise from the definition are what define the concept, not the words used to define them. the concept of "the" will very rarely be a parent concept of anything, even if we simplify it all the way down to being nothing more than a vibration spreading through the atmosphere at a certain frequency. stuff like prefixes, and suffixes require language, and grammar and punctuation, too, but specific symbols, sounds, or behaviors do not.


Okay, so I'm going to keep things simple for this post and go through the assumptions I made about the system and how it would act in practice. Then we can start refining things from there and hopefully catch any misunderstandings I made early on. At first, I defined things in terms of broadness and presence, but since those are negatively proportional to our radius, I'm going to switch to their antonyms, specificity and disparity. These will be represented by the variables s and d and can just be thought of as the respective reciprocals of broadness and presence. All this really does is make the equations easier to read. Our other variables will be r for the radius, h for the height, and V for the volume of a given concept's cylindrical container. We'll also have the constants p for pi and e for Euler's number.
Going back through paragraphsanon's previous posts on the topic, it seems like we want a system where decreasing specificity exponentially decreases the radius, decreasing the disparity increases the height, and the fuel's mass is held constant. I will be using a constant volume in place of mass since that is more easily represented in terms of our variables (V=pr^2h). Assuming a consistent density, this doesn't change anything.
This leads us to our base equations for radius and height: r=de^-s and h=V/(pr^2). The radius equation gives us an exponential relationship between r and s, and the inclusion of d as a factor lets it affect the height. The height equation is just the volume formula solved for h. There's a lot that can be fiddled with in these formulas depending on the exact relationships we want, but they should be somewhat similar to this at their core unless I'm misunderstanding what we want to achieve.
Paragraphsanon also mentioned that the specificity could be assumed constant for a fixed concept while the disparity might change over time. Taking this into account, we get the following derivatives (rates) for r and h: r'=d'e^-s=rd'/d and h'=-2hr'/r=-2hd'/d.
Now let's take a look at some examples. Taking the moon as our concept, where its various phases affect its disparity, we get a smaller height during a new moon which corresponds to a larger radius, and vice-versa for a full moon. This means that chuubanite relying on this concept would have stronger, shorter effects with a new moon and weaker, longer-lasting effects when the moon is full. Since the fuel is held constant, the energy obtained should be the same, but the power and duration will change. I assume all concepts will have the same volume for balancing, in which case none is inherently stronger than another, but some are better suited to certain effects.
Switching our focus to rosestone gives us another example of this in action. I believe it was stated that rosestones normally emit light but can be adjusted to cause sparks and explosions. What this would amount to is changing the glyphs on the chuubanite in order to further specify the concept. This allows you to switch from a low-powered, long-lasting light source to a high-powered, short-lasting explosive.
It also occurs to me that we may not want to enforce such a strict "constant energy output" requirement on our writers, in which case we would need to either drop constant volume (which I imagine could potentially lead to other issues) or have the black-box mechanism which converts concept energy to physical energy adjust things as necessary. In this case, instead of thinking in terms of constant energy with varying power, we would have constant fuel with varying fuel rate.
Paragraphsanon, I was also curious if you had anything in mind when you came up with your original formulas. I didn't really see a way to slide them in at this juncture, but maybe I'm overlooking something. In any case, these formulas are meant to be a base to start from, assuming I didn't misinterpret anything. More factors and variables can be added in as needed, and hopefully we can come out of this with something that works and doesn't make people want to blow their brains out when reading it.


https://rentry.org/dnaft
My plan so far is to have the device only usable by 'catalognauts' in-universe. A common trope in fantastic genre. Lords, heroes, adventurers, jedi, etc.

  1. They are people who are born/created in-tune with the catalog, the immaterial realm/ley line/dreamlands of /vt/ that delivers the conceptual energy to the physical vtubium itself. These people are able to use/ingest/absorb normally fatal amounts of vtubium and are sensitive of its energy. They are like walking batteries, receiving vtubium energy from the catalog.
  2. Career-wise, they can be anything really, mages, scholars, assassins, spies, mercenaries, employing their talents to anyone in need of their services. As for allegiance, it's up to the guilds they register, the Jack of all trade merc corps of /vt/.
  3. As these people are like receivers, they are able to also send messages through it. Using the catalog ley line to transmit thoughts with the communicators and only be able to picked up by other vtubium sensitive people using the device.
  4. The communicators themselves are only handed out to seasoned members by the guild they work for and is only tuned to the same manufacturer.
    A guild's communicator can only be used to contact other members of the same organization.
    Imperial adventurers working for /hlgg/ can only communicate with other imperial adventurers.
    Adventurers working for Babel in /wg/ can only communicate with other members.
    Black Fleet magic Deadbeat mercs can only contact other Black Fleet members.
    And so forth.
  5. Communicators are meticulously crafted to match the brainwaves of its user, no two copies are the same. If a catalognaut slain another and tries to use their communicator, they will get vertigo, migraine, and possible brain damage. No espionage possible.

So for balance, communicators can only be used by

Vtubium sensitive people tuned into the catalog
Only among the same company
Given only to seasoned members
Personally and uniquely crafted to match the user


Well, Retroanon's description of what Retro chuubanite sounds similar to the 「CONCEPT」of Tsukumogami. As a longer something is used, the more animated and soulful it becomes.
The object becomes something of a medium/transformer/engine that uses vtubium as fuel. Like how a wizard needs a wand or a staff, these artifacts define the strength and power of the chuubanite magic.
Fun fact; the idea of using any object as a medium of magic is a thing. I think that video on Cultivation Simulator would help.
Perhaps this could be the basic mechanic;

An object's age of active service

Even if the artifact is over 300 hundred years old, if it was only used for 12 years, it wouldn't be able to produce much intended effect.

An object's relationship with the user

If an object has been in active use for 100 years, the output's strength depends on the user. A 'clap your hands if you believe' as emotion, faith and believe are the most important factors in chuuba magic. Someone who has sentimental attachment to the artifact would produce a stronger output.

29422239

the main problem i was having before this was that there was no way to easily define such factors as "active service" as all the magic has to be done in the conceptual realm, but with artificial glyphs we can create a variable x with glyph x to match and define x as the concept which we are trying to define. that allows for less physically tangible concepts such as "active service" to be communicated through the conceptual realm. remember how we were having some problems with the precise activation of the tattoos? with this, we can create dynamic glyphs that can change the precise application of their effects according to the context in which they are used. we just need to be willing to meticulously define each of those contexts. think of it as the opposite of transubstantiation, where you are forcing a concept to change to represent a physical thing, rather than forcing a physical thing to change to represent a concept.

29422686

but with artificial glyphs we can create a variable x with glyph x to match and define x as the concept which we are trying to define. that allows for less physically tangible concepts such as "active service" to be communicated through the conceptual realm

Wouldnt this create a loophole? Just slap a glyph defining 200 years on an artifact that had just rolled off a blacksmith's forge

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similar to transubstantiation, a variety of factors are necessary to make it readable. for instance, we've thought of at least two factors that might be necessary just for the establishing of the concept of a unique "user". 1) the glyph would require dna as an activator substance. 2) the structure of the glyph would have to, in some way, denote aspects of the personality of each individual using it. we can come up with as many other factors as we want just for users, but it only gets more complex when you realize that every different concept could require a different criterion to be successfully defined. the problem with meta-concepts is that it's hard to point to a meta-concept and say "that is a meta-concept" and the problem with deceptive glyphs is that they are indistinguishable from failed glyphs.
remember, this "artificial glyph" concept ultimately takes on the function of "x" in these interactions. that is, a valueless number that only serves the purpose of acting as a placeholder. if i said "2+2=x" and then said "x=5" then that would invalidate the equation, making it lose all meaning in the process. math is worthless if it loses it's meaning, which is why you need to use dysfunctional glyphs to make such statements in the first place. x is not a number in the decimal system, which is why it can be replaced with any decimal number.

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dysfunctional glyphs

to clarify, x is a dysfunctional number as far as base 10 is concerned. that is what gives it the potential to be any number we assign it. with functional glyphs, we solve the question, with artificial glyphs, we ask the question so that it can be solved. that is the idea i am getting at.

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the glyph would require dna as an activator substance

Imo the activator should not be DNA as nostalgia is subjective and emotionally driven.
Perhaps brain activity and hormone levels would do?
This would allow some malleability if more than one people share sentimental value for the same object.

the problem with meta-concepts is that it's hard to point to a meta-concept and say "that is a meta-concept"
this "artificial glyph" concept ultimately takes on the function of "x" in these interactions. that is, a valueless number that only serves the purpose of acting as a placeholder

Since chuubanite magic is defined and executed by the Conceptual Realm, it effectively makes this form of magic 'Cloud Based'. It is the server that does all the heavy lifting. Calculations, definitions, and even transmission. Glyphs act like... client based requests.
The artificial glyph will give the server information such as the user's state of mind and the properties of the assigned object's input values (age, service).

if i said "2+2=x" and then said "x=5" then that would invalidate the equation, making it lose all meaning in the process

This would not be a problem when it is the Conceptual Realm that handles the magic. We give it a request for X. The Conceptual Realm provides it after processing the input values.

with functional glyphs, we solve the question, with artificial glyphs, we ask the question so that it can be solved. that is the idea i am getting at.

So to put it in layman, the glyph is incomplete as it is a set of requests; awaiting the final decision from the server?

29424033

nostalgia is subjective and emotionally driven.

no, dna was important for establishing the concept of a single user. that was only one of the concepts we needed to clearly define to identify what the user valued about a thing. by necessity, then, it can't be hormones, because hormones don't define the person themselves. everyone has hormones, not everyone has the same dna. that is why dna is necessary with defining the person. brain activity would be one of those non-physical interactions that our old system couldn't identify.
there are two ways the brain sends information. one is through waves that are propagated through a neuron that reaches the internal ionic balance to achieve action potential, which is then further propagated through neural networks, but i believe there is a high chance that neural networks are far too inefficient to be good at storing information, so it very likely encodes those signals into rna which it can read later, hence why excessively recalling memory distorts it noticeably more than recalling it in moderation. either way, scale would determine that our activator substance would be on the genetic scale for identifying users.

server/client

this is a great analogy. ya, artificial glyphs are kind of like asking the server to finish your program, but someone still needs to write the code that tells the server how you want the black box to function. establishing that code for the first time is a pain, but all the effort spent there will be made up for in the convenience provided by that effort. the way you establish code is similar to machine learning, essentially.
you need to give it a bunch of data that narrows what it is you are trying to define, otherwise the server couldn't tell a bee and the letter b apart if it tried. remember, the conceptual realm breaks the concepts up as soon as they enter the conceptual realm, like black holes and spaghettification, you need to define smaller-scale concepts like "user" and "value" and "object" to answer questions like "what does the user specifically value in this object" otherwise those are meaningless terms, and you'll get an error for your use of undefined terms.

29424864

The bottleneck I'm trying to figure out is how do we convert a qualitative value into a quantitative value.
Retro chuubanite has subjective input; nostalgia/sentimentality.
The server wants objective input.

29425341

we redefine the subjective input to be objective, of course. we actually already got the idea resolved more or less, but there is a reason i haven't said nostalgia to define it. i keep saying it's "what the user values in a thing" which, while still subjective, gives us leeway to make our criteria more objective. the method we came to was having a chuubanite trinket or stamp in the form of a glyph that represents the user, and then to have manufacturers put glyphs that represent different relevant attributes of the object itself onto the part of the object related to that attribute. the chuubanite will be strengthened by their feelings about that attribute when it is in effect due to their nostalgia, which will then improve that attribute through the chuubanite.
this was how we solved that, but you know full well we could get much more complex if we wanted to. i suggested a sort of integrated/mini-glyph that could be put inside a glyph to further increase the complexity of this system, but the potential of that is theoretically infinite. imagine how complex and customizable a fractal glyph could be. we are only at the beginning stages of imagining this technique of chuubanite usage, so we could definitely find more ways to make use of it, and i can't wait to see what ways people can come up with.

29426033

i suggested a sort of integrated/mini-glyph that could be put inside a glyph to further increase the complexity of this system, but the potential of that is theoretically infinite. imagine how complex and customizable a fractal glyph could be. we are only at the beginning stages of imagining this technique of chuubanite usage, so we could definitely find more ways to make use of it, and i can't wait to see what ways people can come up with.

Now you are just making my client-server analogy literal. With this each glyph is essentially a mini-computer. I have no problem with that but oh boy this will take the 'world inspired by a website' theme much more literal.

29427197

that just makes it better, but desu, i came up with the idea before you mentioned the server/client stuff. in retrospect, i can't believe i didn't see that connection, but i am sure glad that it was made, thank you. ya, this basically makes the conceptual realm a realm of computation, as well. to be fair, the concept of "2+2" is identical in all but the symbols used to "4" as they are, by definition, equal. they are the same concept, so this is a natural result of all we have made thus far. i love it.


29810320

The conceptual/heavenly realm (hereinafter, "Vitium Field", has a nice ring to it) can be thought of as a field that exist everywhere in the physical world.

To simplify the following paragraphs, here would be the division of the realms, from the smallest to the largest Not by size, but by how many "fields" they contain. The realms in this interpretation are not really separate, but exist inside each other.

  1. Vitium Field aka Heavenly Realm Aka Conceptual Realm

Comprised only of the Vitium Field and its associated particles and entities that are formed of those particles.

  1. Physical Realm

Comprised of spacetime, and all the other fields (electromagnetic and so on).

  1. Superreality ("Reality" would be a better name if not for that word being likely to be used on other contexts and thus would be a poor choice for the name.)

A combination of the Physical Realm, and the Vitium Field. Everything exists within Superreality, and nothing exists outside of it.
All the alternate timelines or alternate dimensions like /trash/ would exist as branches/areas of Superreality, in the form of isolated pockets of Physical Realm within Superreality. The vitium field spans the entirety of the Superreality.
Simplified: Think of Physical Realms (like /jp/ and Vitubia) as planets. The Vitium Field is the space that the planets are engulfed in, and which ultimately connects the planets to each other. Superreality is the solar system, including both the planets and the space surrounding them. For this analogy, forget the existence of anything outside the solar system.
Superreality sort of emerges naturally as the set of both the Physical Realm and the Vitium Field.

Further simplification for what exactly I mean by chuubanite, vitubium, and magic quanta.

  1. Magic Quanta

Waveparticles that exist in the Vitium Field. Comprised of pure magical energy, with an associated set of concepts (which can be thought of as specific waveforms. Emphasis on "thought of as", the concepts themselves may or may not literally be waveforms themselves). Magic Quanta naturally exist only in the Vitium Field. Magic Quanta that are pulled into the physical realm will almost immediately annihilate, releasing their energy in the form magic or conventional energy.

  1. Vitubium

An element/substance that can store Magic Quanta. Magic Quanta that are bonded to Vitubium are "pulled" into the physical realm, and they stay stable for as long as they are bonded to vitubium. May or may not take the form of atoms.

  1. Chuubanite

Vitubium bonded with mundane matter.

Entities of the Vitium Field exist alongside the entities of the physical world but cannot interact with the physical world directly, and naturally the reverse is also true. The exception to this is Vitubium, which interacts with both Vitium Field and the Physical Realm, working as a bridge between the two.
The gods exist as entities within the Vitium Field, and these entities are comprised of Vitium Field associated particles, which are not magic quanta. The vitium field entities thus in a sense exist alongside us physical beings, but the only way they can interact with us is through Vitubium, which is the one shared aspect between the physical realm and the vitium field.
Spirits, Jannies, whatever Mechaffyna is, are all vitium field entities, free to travel between the various physical realms, but able to only interact with them through vitubium.
Concepts themselves may exist as entities or structures of the vitium field. These entities and structures themselves may affect vitubium.

Does this make any sense to you? Is my understanding + additional interpretations at all accurate or sensible?


29851052

Assuming >>29810320 is accurate.

Magic Quanta

As described before, Magic Quanta are waveparticles which is not the proper word for such a thing, but I'll use it because I saw someone else use it before and it sounds cool of the Vitium Field.
Magic quanta have 3 qualities attached to them that are needed to explain their behaviour. These are shown in the picture attached below. Do note that the illustration is NOT WHAT A MAGIC QUANTA LOOKS LIKE it is merely a diagram that helps understand the magic quanta and its qualities.

https://files.catbox.moe/1fivkl.png

Probability wave

A wave function that describes the way a magic quanta moves. These can become extremely complex very fast, so I wont delve at all into it. For those interested, the closest real world equivalent for how I imagine the magic quanta probability wave to function are electrons. I'd link a cool picture of hydrogen wave functions here because they are cool but there is a risk of that just confusing people more so I wont.

Very simply, the probability wave's value at any given point of space describes the likelihood of the magic quanta we are observing being found in that point of space. The sum of the entire probability wave is 1, meaning that there is a 100% chance to find the magic quanta somewhere within the probability wave. From this follows that any specific areas of the probability wave have values that are fractions of 1. An area with a value of 0.15 has a 15% chance for the magic quanta being found there. If we know that the value of the probability wave is 0.15 at some point, we can assume that the wave's combined value everywhere else is 1 - 0.15 = 0.85.

Energy

Simply, the energy of the particle. The energy levels are quantized, meaning that they can only gain discrete whole number values, and cannot gain fractional values. I'll use the symbol ħ to denote a unit of energy for a magic quanta (how much one ħ is in joules I do not know).
So, a magic quanta can have energies that are 0ħ, 1ħ, 2ħ, 3ħ, 4ħ, 5ħ, 6ħ, and so on. When a magic quanta annihilates, all this energy is released in the form of light, heat, and magical effect.
The existence of a 0ħ energy magic quanta is a special case that may or may not be canonical, but it certainly could be a useful concept to have. We could have only magic quanta of energies higher than 0ħ annihilate in the physical realm, each annihilation leaving behind a 0ħ energy magic quanta, which can exist in the physical realm. These 0 energy magic quanta could work as conceptual information carriers, as they would still have the other 2 qualities of a magic quanta. This means that when chuubanite decays, it is radiating away both energy and conceptual information. This could be very useful for some magical mechanics.

Concept

Do note that this refers to the conceptual identity of a magic quanta. You could think of it as a concept fingerprint that is left on the magic quanta, or perhaps a stain that marks the magic quanta according to some vitium entity. When talking about the concepts of the conceptual realm, for the purposes of clarity when talking about the quantum interpretation, please use "Vitium Entity" for living concepts (such as chuubas), and "Vitium Structure" for nonliving concepts (like horniness).

The conceptual identity of the magic quanta. These conceptual identities can be described as complex waveforms that are comprised of simpler waves. A more complex waveform is synonymous with "parent concept", and a simpler waveform is synonymous with "child concept". A complex waveform can be broken apart into a series of simpler waveforms, which themselves may still be complex, and could be taken apart into even simpler forms. At some point a waveform can no longer be simplified further. The reverse is also true, a complex waveform can be combined with other complex waveforms to create even more complex waveform. After an infinite number of combinations, a theoretical maximum would be achieved by creating the most complex possible waveform, an all-encompassing concept of everything.

So, there exists 2 extremes of concept identities, the foundational simplest of concepts that can no longer be broken down further, and the all-encompassing everything-concept that cannot be grown any further. Every other concept exists as something that is between these two extremes.


29861918

If you know how electrons behave in metal, the following should be pretty simple for you to understand, as an analogy to that is where we are going.

A new definition:

Magic Quanta pressure

As magic quanta on some level repel each other (but not to the same extend as, say, electrons), when there are magic quanta in a closed system, the system tries to push away some of the magic quanta. This is why a full vitubium particle is more likely to release magic quanta, why the likelyhood of vitubium rejection grows as the vitubium particle becomes filled, and also why flooding a partially filled vitubium particle in magic quanta rises the probabilities of vitubium acceptance.
Imagine an isolated system with 1 vitubium particle in it. The system is a tight box which forces the magic quanta into constant contact with the vitubium particle.

When 8 magic quanta are added to the system, the equilibrium of acceptance-release is when 4 magic quanta are bonded with the vitubium particle, and 4 magic quanta are unbonded ("free").
When 4 more magic quanta are added to the system, the equilibrium moves to 6 bonded, 6 free.
When 4 more magic quanta are added, the equilibrium is at 8 bonded, 8 free. the vitubium particle is full, and adding more magic quanta to the system does not increase the amount of bonded magic quanta.

If the system was not a tight box, more magic quanta to vitubium particles would be needed to meet an equilibrium, as not the magic quanta are less "pressured" to be in contact with the vitubium particle.

Chuubanite

Chuubanite is a general name for any substance that is composed of a significant amount of vitubium particles. Anything can be chuubanite as long as it includes a significant amount of vitubium in its makeup: a diamond which has impurities of vitubium particles bonded to its carbon atoms, a liquid found inside a plant which has vitubium salts dissolved into it, and a copper alloy with small amounts of vitubium mixed in it are all types of chuubanite. For the purposes of this text, let us observe the copper-vitubium alloy:

https://files.catbox.moe/pr6ovz.png

The orange-yellow orbs are copper atoms.
The rhombuses are vitubium particles.
the purple-ish orbs are magic quanta.

In the above illustration, we have a copper-vitubium alloy where the Vitubium Acceptance and Vitubium Release are close to being in equilibrium for the amount of magic quanta in the chuubanite.

As vitubium particles spontaneously release magic quanta, and the magic quanta pressure forces magic quanta into contact with vitubium resulting in vitubium acceptance, we'll see a system where magic quanta are constantly being released and absorbed. Between each individual vitubium particle there exists a "cloud" of magic quanta in the form of probability waves (remember the wave-particle duality nature of the magic quanta!). As these magic quanta are within the "reach" of vitubium (as in, are inside chuubanite) they can exist without annihilating.

It is at the edge of the chuubanite object where the magic quanta risk being annihilated.

The true nature of chuubanite decay

As the probability wave of a magic quanta spans the entirety of Superreality (but is at its highest near the location of the magic quanta, which is not determined yet, so its a little bit paradoxical but bear with me).

Illustration of what happens at the edge of a chuubanite object.
https://files.catbox.moe/7cm1wy.png
The image includes explanation. While saying that chuubanite is radioactive will help people understand the radiation more intuitively, it is not exactly how it works. Vitubium does not break apart and decay into other elements, it releases its bonded magic quanta, which then quantum tunnel outside of the vitubium substance / chuubanite object. This is why, unlike with radioactive decay, the absolute amount of radiation of a chuubanite object is dependent on its surface area and the number of magic quanta in relation to that surface area, and not the number of vitubium particles present.
At most, it would be accurate to say that magic quanta are radioactive and even that is a bit of a stretch, but it works while vitubium itself isnt.

An illustration of the entire decay process
https://files.catbox.moe/zgjqdx.png

Naturally, as magic quanta are being destroyed at the edge of the chuubanite object, the vitubium particles near the edge start to become empty. To remedy this, magic quanta from deeper within the chuubanite object drift outwards (guided by magic quanta pressure), so that the amount of magic quanta within the object is as close to uniform as possible. There is probably a slight gradient with there being slightly more magic quanta at the center of the object than at the edges, but you should never encounter a chuubanite object where the edge of it is empty, while the core is full.


https://rentry.org/messy_catalognaut_convo

30418749
30375584 →

different chuubanite alignments can have multiple effects and that they can be combined together with differently aligned chuubanites of similar concept, if this is still applied then how would that look in action for a catalognaut
would this only be to the extent of what the catalognaut knew about their own chuubanite

The keyword is 'faith' or 'belief' in their oshii. Catalognauts are not born with a blank wildcard chuubanite, their natural affinity is based on the environment. Born somewhere near to Mt Mori, it's obvious which ones will be chosen. If a Catalognaut is presented with two chuubanites of similar concept, priority goes to which Chuuba or concept their faith lies. Present a KFP with a Kiara chuubanite and a Tomoshika chuubanite. Though both are fire-based, Kiara's will be activated.

would a catalognaut need to do certain rituals to refill their reserve of heavenly energy

No extensive rituals needed. As long as their belief in their chuuba is strong they receive energy from the Catalog like a rechargeable battery or a plant photosynthesising.

30376005 →

they have a lot of chuubanite in or with them, in quantities big enough that it'd be harmful to most people
their bodies and weapons don't act like chuubanite

Recall Nasfaqronie's lecture on what constitutes as chuubanite. Now imagine the entire physical body hosting magic quanta. Tissue cells, blood cells, blood plasma, nail keratin, etc.

based on the assumption their powers come from chuubanite there would have to be some mechanism for it to be replenished. It would be plausible that the catalognaut can simply absorb chuubanite from the environment passively

Completely bypassed environment. Like a robot that's always connected to the cloud, these people are connected to the immaterial realm, the Catalog. Straight from the tap.

catalognaut would need to have knowledge of all of them

It depends on the individual. Multi-oshis (polytheistic/secular) people might be able to do it. But not recommended. Medieval physicians had a word for this; humor imbalance.

30416206

basically, they act like chuubanite in that they are linked to the conceptual realm, which gives them (or their consciousness maybe) access to the catalog
they still need to know how chuubanite works
i think this is more or less how it works. /meat/bro, correct me on all of this

Yeah you got it right. Just missing this info;

transubstantiation
catalognaut has to be the almost perfect physical and conceptual representation of a core concept associated with the chuubanite

This is an important factor but not mandatory. Inspired from Eastern mysticism like qi cultivation and enlightenment. The stronger your faith and utilisation of Chuubanite is, the more you mutate into looking like your oshi. The closer the physical body represents the concept and the chuuba, the more powerful they are. With 1:1 transubstantiation being the 'Level 99 Golden Core Qi Supreme God Wizard'. In Layman's, the most powerful wizards in /mep/, regardless of sex, are all snobby Reine cosplayers that go 'mep'. Yes, /become/ is a serious theme in this universe. Pomufication and Lamification are not jokes anymore.

30417529
30417692

I would have called that a "potential catalognaut", or a "catalognaut candidate"
I was looking at catalognaut as a profession
didn't have to do anything, but were often useful in a variety of fields such as spying and communication
i am pretty sure you said they could be anything multiple times, but if i am misinterpreting you please correct me

Yeah I said those. It depends on how the state views these people.

  • Some would give them freedom to be whatever they want like any regular people, just with a unique talent. They could find specific niches in the economy to employ their abilities. Healers, farmers, cooks, entertainers etc.
  • Some would provide benefits for them to employ in high risk jobs such as adventuring, military, intelligence, diplomacy, or esoteric involvement. Jobs such as being the /vt/ equivalent of Mentats or as blue collar living transmitters, operatives protecting diplomats, etc.
  • Some would go as far as implementing mandatory conscription and training, can't let such a gift go to waste.
    As for /meat/ I think our policy is affirmative action because of the reliance on magic and rituals.
    I am now accepting more questions.

*

30419777
30418749

nta

If a Catalognaut is presented with two chuubanites of similar concept, priority goes to which Chuuba or concept their faith lies. Present a KFP with a Kiara chuubanite and a Tomoshika chuubanite.

So, what this would mean is that a catalognaut is in a closer connection with a certain affinity of chuubanite, to the point where their body rejects other types and their magic.
I'm assuming that catalognauts can still use chuubanite of other types, but only externally. A catalognaut of numbers can activate an indie chuuba chuubanite glyph.

...Catalog like a rechargeable battery or a plant photosynthesising.
Completely bypassed environment. Like a robot that's always connected to the cloud, these people are connected to the immaterial realm, the Catalog. Straight from the tap.

You could think of Catalognauts as having presence in the Vitium field. This sort of naturally comes with

Now imagine the entire physical body hosting magic quanta.

due to magic quanta being in effect waves and ripples in the Vitium Field. These waves and ripples exist everywhere in the Vitium Field, the only adaptation a Catalognaut would need for storing them is for their body to be able to bond to them.
Interesting side effect of the catalognaut storing magic quanta in their bodies would be that the Catalognauts themselves radiate energy into their environment. If magical radiation has the ability to cause electrical interference, then this would also mean that by extension, the mere presence of a Catalognaut also causes electrical interference. The more powerful the Catalognaut, the more powerful the interference.

There are other implications. If a Catalognaut is in conenction with the Vitium Field, it would be reasonable for a Catalognaut to be able to sense things in the field. A Catalognaut would sense another Catalognaut nearby, and if they are sensitive enough, they may even be able to decipher their affinity before even seeing them.

A Catalognaut could feel the presence of a deity, or a Vitium Entity (like mechaffyna, i suppose), whereas a mundane normal person would not.

Here I'd like to re-introduce the concept of Bridge Entities, creatures that are not of the Physical World, are not exclusively of the Vitium Field, but have an active presence in both. Jannies fit the bill, as do Catalognauts. They could both be called "Bridge Entitites", referring to their ability to "Bridge the gap" between the Vitium Field and the physical world. See image.
https://files.catbox.moe/wfgn3g.png

catalognaut has to be the almost perfect physical and conceptual representation of a core concept associated with the chuubanite

I personally see it going the other way. A Catalognaut will not be a perfect representaation of their concept, but the fact that they are a catalognaut will inevitably change them to become that. The process is not voluntary, you slowly /become/ whether you like it or not, at best you can slow the process down.

30419135

Nasfaqronies would still have the blue hair and narcissism

Do keep in mind not all Nasfaqronies are Catalognauts.

30419157

To use nasfaqronie terms, they'd partly exist in the Vitium Field?

EVERYTHING partially exists in the field, but some entities are more or less exclusive about it, and some entities exist in the field more than others. See pic above for how I think it would work.

30419226

Nashags are no joke.

Funny you mention that, I just woke up from a midday nap.

*

30420321
30419777

The process is not voluntary, you slowly /become/ whether you like it or not

i don't much like this interpretation. what determines whether or not someone becomes a catalognaut if not how perfectly they represent a concept? this is supposed to be pretty rare, and that is a great way to reduce the number of them, but if becoming a representation of a concept is a symptom and not a cause, whatever makes someone a catalognaut is necessarily less difficult because any reasonable condition you could think about can't be exclusive to them being in those conditions because either way, they will find themselves in those conditions one way or another.

*

30420564
30419777

I'm assuming that catalognauts can still use chuubanite of other types, but only externally

Yes. An X-affinity user can use tools that have Y and Z in its mechanism. They just cannot naturally activate and use them.

Interesting side effect of the catalognaut storing magic quanta in their bodies would be that the Catalognauts themselves radiate energy into their environment
If a Catalognaut is in conenction with the Vitium Field, it would be reasonable for a Catalognaut to be able to sense things in the field. A Catalognaut would sense another Catalognaut nearby

Exactly! It's how they are able to become organic transmitters and receivers to execute psychic communication. To travel into the Catalog. If your theory is right, Chuubanite weapons would also become more powerful in their vicinity.

their ability to "Bridge the gap" between the Vitium Field and the physical world

Interesting. In my mind I see them more as a tap or an outlet.

See image

Huh. Wouldnt Jannies be higher since they have limited spatial-relativity control (sending entire countries into a pocket dimension jail)

not all Nasfaqronies are Catalognauts

It's a thought experiment

The process is not voluntary, you slowly /become/ whether you like it or not

30420321

I think it's best to give the users agency at controlling the process. What use is becoming powerful if you have to sacrifice your ego and personality to behave like your oshi.

30420464
30420513
30420533
30420549

Yes. No hereditary.
The dumbest, and arguably easiest with tons of handwaving, way of doing it is like Protodermis from Bionicle. Will you become a powerful hero or die? It's up to fate

*

30421076
30420564

If your theory is right, Chuubanite weapons would also become more powerful in their vicinity.

At least weapons of the correct affinity I suppose.

Interesting. In my mind I see them more as a tap or an outlet.

That's a semantics difference. The effect is the same.
A tap has to be connected to a tank, and an outlet to a wire.

Huh. Wouldnt Jannies be higher since they have limited spatial-relativity control (sending entire countries into a pocket dimension jail)

Its not a power ranking, but a spectrum of how exclusively you are connected to the Vitium Field or the Physical Realm. A Janny should be somewhere in the middle, as they can have a powerful effect on both, but cannot travel the Superreality to its fullest (which a concept can do), as Jannies are tied to a handful of physical realm "islands".
A Janny is of course from the perspective of a normal human or a catalognaut an incredibly powerful entity, but they are only moderately less rooted in the physical than Jannies are.

30420858

The mechanic is already explained by the connection, as is the transubstantiation symptoms. The only thing unexplained is why the connection forms, and this >>30420749 works decently well. The very nature of the Vitium Field/Conceptual Realm may be random, meaning that random freak events like the formation of a Catalognaut's connection sometimes just randomly happens for no reason, and this is justifiable. Our own universe works to certain extent in very unpredictable and "random" ways, there is no reason as to why the setting wouldn't either.

You are right though, the Vitium Field/Conceptual Realm has no "Will" or "intent" of its own, even if its entities may.

*

30421509
30421076

Our own universe works to certain extent in very unpredictable and "random" ways, there is no reason as to why the setting wouldn't either.

only in regard to things we don't have any way to properly observe. i don't think that is a decent justification for it, especially compared to the previous justification for it. furthermore, i don't think faith or devotion are nebulous, but i understand that people think differently from me. what i don't understand is how such a massive change could happen randomly, and cause someone to be forced to become something else against their will in a way that is rare.
if it is a domino sort of effect, then everyone should be catalognauts, the only question would be how long it takes for them to change. all it takes is a single bit of something and you're set on that journey. alternatively, if it's anything too complex, then it couldn't be done on the kind of scale it would have to be for "our own universe works to certain extent in very unpredictable and "random" ways" to be a good enough explanation, as it is is working at a completely different scale. imagine planets that followed the rules of quantum mechanics.

*

30433442
30432820

it sounds like your interpretation only informs us of what the real-life representation of the event would be. it isn't exclusive to any of the interpretations previously stated, so i see it as an entirely separate idea. the only other interpretation besides mine that i saw support for was the randomly caused metamorphosis. your interpretation can explain the trigger out-of universe, but can't explain it in universe, and doesn't even try to explain the metamorphosis. meanwhile, it could be yet another condition of mine that for a catalognaut to be born, they must establish a connection to the conceptual realm during a period of time when their chuubanite is unstable, and thus would allow for a closer connection to be formed. with that being said, i really like that idea. especially since /meat/ is in a constant state of suffering

*

30433731
30432820
30433442

also, i guess i forgot to mention in the post, i think your explanation works as a time period for when artificial glyphs can be established. otherwise, it might be too overpowered to be able to make your own concepts and glyphs without any worry. this way, artificial glyphs and catalognauts would work very similarly to each other in that both use instability withing the conceptual realm to force a connection between the conceptual and physical realms which can be used to artificially connect a concept with a glyph, substance, or person and vice versa.

*

30435169
30434273

you have to be born the right way, -and- you have to think the right way

i was thinking the primary importance would be the concept, and it was mostly about making the connection. the connection essentially makes you a physical representation of the concept, so if you lose a limb after the connection is formed, the concept is damaged in some way. that doesn't mean they lose the same limb if they are a chuuba, but if enough transubstantiations have the same thing done to them, it will result in doing that thing to the concept. this is the process /meat/ uses for their deiphagy rituals. if you lose a limb before the connection, and it makes you dissimilar enough from the concept you are representing, you can't form the connection. the connection preserves what influence it can have on you, especially in terms of your mind, so if you lose a loved one, the way you respond to it is already the way they would respond to it if they went through the same thing. if transubstantiations had to literally be doing the same thing their chuubas were doing, they would be wholefully maladapted to their environment, as chuubas are in a completely different setting. like a robot with faulty senses making decisions based on a different set of data. your personality is not your mood, with that said, your personality must be the same when the connection is established. same reasoning.

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30436157/30436433
30435916

no, i don't think that would work. transubstantiation qualifies the person to be the representation of a concept, but to be a catalognaut you need something that can exist without losing itself in the conceptual realm. weakly connected concepts would be torn apart as child concepts. you need to be the embodiment of that concept to use that concept as a vessel. you can only be one concept, but that concept can have child concepts, but if you allow your concept to be polluted at all, the conceptual realm will destroy you. that's how i imagine it.
so basically, you must represent the whole of one concept. the degree of error can be decided by how closely you must follow the conditions, and is thus up to the thread, but it must be close enough that normal people aren't likely to do it at all. if you do not meet the standard, no connection will be formed, and any connection that is formed will be destroyed almost immediately. it would be better for most that such a connection does not happen, and it likely won't unless forced by humans, or well withing the prerequisites to succeed.


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Pub: 06 Jul 2022 15:47 UTC
Edit: 10 Aug 2022 02:44 UTC
Views: 568