Day 1
the absolute state of epic’s PPT meant for high courts https://appDOTbox.com/s/6b9wmjvr582c95uzma1136exumk6p989/file/806765766136
Call starts with kids literally hijacking the hearing
Epic's powerpoint depicts a walled garden being bult in slides like some high school presentation
It also shows emails that question's Apple's policing of the store
Epic Games “overestimated” how much money it could make off esports and lost good money
Apple cited Federal Trade Commission v. Qualcomm Inc., in other words bad fucking news
Apple said that Epic was deceiving while giving Microsoft a heads-up, calling him a snake in multiple ways
Tim is speaking now making a fool of himself
Unreal makes pennies compared to Fortnite, Fortnite made $9 billion revenue in 2018 and 2019 while Unreal Engine only made $221 million
Only 7% of EGS customers have made a purchase on the store
Epic pays as little as $50k for some of the free games
2018 EGS earned 2 million and cost 14 million to operate
2019 EGS earned 233 million and cost 465 million to operate
email reveals Epic Games had pitched cross-play announce with Sony where "Epic goes out of its way to make Sony look like heroes."
this following section is timmy being crossexam'd by apple
"what is fortnite?
"uuh its a social entertainment experience"
Epic lawyer: is there a difference between Epic paying Apple 30% and paying console companies 30%?
Sweeney: yes, mumble mumble mumble consoles put more money and effort into their platform including updating it technologically mumble
Judge: hold on, would a theoretical Fortnite have been able to run on 2007/8-era iPhones?
Sweeney: no they weren't graphically strong enough
Judge: So Apple also has to technologically develop their products to be able to run newer stuff like Fortnite. How is that any different than console makers
Sweeney: mumble mumble mumble
judge: what is project liberty?
sweeney: ...
So is the epic game store unprofitable
Mumble mumble mumble YES but mumble mumble mumble
Epic lawyer asking about the payment-adding hotfix Sweeney planted into iOS fortnite
Sweeney framing it as a minor procedural hotfix
Judges butts in, "you concede that while hotfixes are usually for minor things, Epic did way more than just minor fixes with that hotfix don't you?"
Sweeney: yes
Did you know there was already a lawsuit being made against apple by other developers you could have joined?
mumble mumble yes
but you decided to go ahead and launch your own separate lawsuit on your own, ok
tl;dr
Judge keeps asking questions about his arguements, with Tim constantly saying things that just complicate his situation further
She keeps getting him to dance around the replies and basically calling out his stream of questionable actions
Bunch of documents leak out making Epic's current situation embarrasing to look at
PS4 Crossplay requires paying, numbers of exclusivity deals, revenue, ect
Sweeny audiably stutters trying to reply to the judge digging his grave with every reply
You have read the contact, yes?
Pause
Y-yes
You didn't dispute the contract Epic signed giving Apple full discretion over what it puts on its App store correct?
ten second pause uh I complained about it a lot online in the last ten years
And epic didn't object to the 30% commission from Apple when you signed into a contract in 2010, correct?
pause
I'm not so sure about that
In other words you didn't bring up the issue directly with apple when Epic signed the contract?
......yes
and you intentionally breached the contract?
Yes
Are you proud of your game... Fortnite ?
yeah mumble mumble it made 9 billion so of course i'm proud of it
Fortnite made 6 billion dollars on playstation correct?
yes
you pay and continue to pay Sony 30%?
yes
Sony does not permit sideloading, or any alternative payment on their system including an Epic pay system correct?
yes
Fortnite made 3 billion on Xbox correct?
yes
you pay and continue to pay Microsoft 30%?
yes
Microsoft does not permit sideloading, an Epic pay option, or any other non-Microsoft pay option on Xbox?
yes
Fornite made 1 billion on Nintendo?
yes
You're aware of Nintendo, you give them 30%, does not permit sideloading, requires its own tech to be used for purchases, does not permit an Epic pay option does it?
yes
Apple charges the same 30% commission as all these other platforms?
Yes
Apple charges 30%, does not permit sideloading, requires its own system for purchases, consistent with all the other platforms?
Yes
And the amount Fortnite made on iOS is less than all of the other platforms?
You recall testifying that Apple's 30% commission is stifling Epic?
Yes
Privacy is important to you?
Yes.
Some statistics
The Division 2 only sold ~120k copies on Epic. It probably would have sold 1 million on Steam easily.
it was also fraud refunded to hell and back due to 'lmao who needs security and infrastructure' move by tim
Anno 1800 only sold 31.7k copies.
To rub salt in the wound, Anno 1800 had 25k peak concurrent users on Steam. So Steam preorders of Anno 1800 mogged EGS sales even though you can't buy it on Steam any more.
LWN, a cute and funny game made by one man in his basement sells more copies than AAA games on EGS
EGS's revenue goes to nearly 0 during the Steam sale
basically the developers bragging about their games doing very well on the EGS and that they don't need Steam are full of shit
FREE GAMES STATISTICS AND THEIR WORTH TO EPIC AT THE TIME OF BUYOUT
also
We learn Microsoft has employees play Sony first party games to review them (okay this one isn't too surprising)
We learn Sony charges developers extra if they have cross platform play
We learn that if you publish a game on a Nintendo system, you can't work for the yakuza
this can of worms was all opened because tim in his infinite wisdom decided to sue apple over nothing
DAY 1 OVER
Day 2
you've heard of food analogies, now get ready for GAS STATION ANALOGIES
also epic paid $250 million dollars to Disney and KH3 for KH3 exclusivity
on platform differences
The slide behind that speech was about the platform wars, correct?
yes
this includes consoles, correct?
yes
phones
yes
tablets
yes
And these things are way more common now, correct?
yes
and of all these various computing platforms, almost everyone has one of these in their homes, correct?
................
w-well I think not that many people have all of those things
You would agree wouldn't you that Apple has never restricted cross wallet play while Fortnite was on IOS, true?
...................................................................
M-my recollection was that Apple's policy d-didn't mention cross wallet play
Epic wanted to put fortnite on ios to motivate microsoft to accept crossplay, correct?
.....
E-epic agreed to put fornite on ios
If I mispoke, thank you for that sir but still you agree?
y-yes
apple baiting tim
Digital gaming is a very dynamic world isn't it?
.....u-uh it changes every time
You said "A great game will succeed wherever it's sold"
Do you still agree with this statement?
............... (tim doesn't answer)
where developers go customers will go right?
...yeah
Do you still agree with that statement today
Y-yes in the context of the PC gaming b-business
Judge chimes in
I don't understand what you mean by that, are you saying that great games won't succeed in another context?
Does that mean the opposite is true?
".....uhm.....eh....it depends...on...platform..."
So great games on different platforms, your statement does not apply
re-referring to customers
I understand what you said, I am asking if out of context does that mean its not applicable
(pause)
I-I'm sorry what do you mean
cont. line of questioning
That's a generally applicable statement, correct?
silence
Now that question is not limited to PC gaming is it?
Th-that question was limited to the EGS...
on recent itchio acquisition
Do you agree that stores should control the quality of apps available on their store?
yeah
How many games are in the EGS?
mumble
What percent are paid download versus freemium?
i don't know exactly mumble
How many games are on itch.io
..I-I'm not sure but I'm sure hundreds
Have you looked into all of the developers who make games on itch.io?
no
it was important to you to have these apps on the EGS before this trial?
...yeah
so you admit you did the acquisition just to further your position of 'supporting the devs' during this trial
....yes
tl;dr tim put on a bigger show of being inclusive after he filed the trial and apple called him out on it in front of the judge
When you say profitable within 3-4 years you don't mean the money to various game developers will have been paid off, do you?
...........-u-um That's not what I had in mind
Those documents are private information about Paradox, a third party
Your honor, I'm not the one naming the third party and I had no intention of doing so
epic's lawyer fucked up and disclosed private information between companies AGAIN
pic related: uplay's data breach, making the div 2 acquisition lose them money
no profit until 2024, $45 million profit
cumulative earning negative $840 million IN 2027 GOING BY EPIC'S OWN PREDICTIONS
these facts have been yes'd by tim himself
12% IS SUSTAINABLE
Tim in your message to Apple you're saying some shit about Android?
That's a typo, we copy/pasted the message we sent to Google
Apple lawyer reading direct quotes from Tim on Project Liberty
tim:.........
they talked about the 198Fortnite propaganda and #freefortnite
what do you think about this?
W-We released a s-short film titled 19....19 Eighty-Fortnite....uhhhh...Satirizing...
Apple lawyer points out apple users can purchase V bucks on the safari browser outside of the app that would have been in ios
Judge joins in to question why this wasn't an option
Why wasn't that an option before? (selling vbucks via browser)
It wasn't an attractive option to us.
did you not have the technological ability, etc?
You had the option and you chose not to do it?
yes.
this short exchange actually dismissed tim's entire case btw
also tim loves apple
Tim, you use an iphone, correct?
Yes
Do you prefer the iphone
Yes
enjoy the upcoming fireworks show :)
t. tim sweeney (to phil psencer, xbox head)
on establishing the difference between consoles and smartphones
consoles aren't general purpose devices
Seems to be setting up that wireless mobile devices function differently than corded consoles. I'm not sure the exact reason, but it seems to be differentiating iOS from PC/console so Epic's conduct with other platforms isn't applicable to the Apple Store.
Tim's definition is it should have a keyboard etc
meanwhile Xbox and Sony support spotify, browsers, etc
judge interjects "I can still access my bank account on both devices so i dont understand the question"
they brought tim's consoles on the fucking courtroom
tim failed to remove and reattach switch joycons in a court of law
epic lawyer tries to argue switch isn't a general purpose device either
lawyer was trying to say you can't play switch handheld because you need to place the switch down to use the controller
judge replied with "what the fuck thats not true"
Judge points out you can use a Switch as one device; you do not need a control and other random shit, completely destroying epic lawyer's argument
Would it be possible to install third party apps on a Nintendo Switch?
Yes
Mister Sweenie please put that paperclip down!
in regards to stadia
Is Google Stadia still in existence today?
Uh, next question please
meanwhile later argues fortnite isn't only a game but a "metaverse experience" with the travis scott concert and what not
I haven't seen any evidence that you're still not playing a game while attending an in-game concert
do you have any research or evidence that people are attending this that aren't already players?
it's not like zoom, etc
No it's not the same, you can emote, etc
but you're still monetizing that, are you not?
yes, your honor
Alright...
Is everything you sell people playing against each other?
well....uh...um...
So how would you define a game?
c-competitive in nature
cont. line of questioning
judge questioning why impulse purchasing options should be allowed in game or why its so important to Epic
do you know your game's (fortnite) main audience
uhh i need context
"Why is it so inconvenient that someone can make, what I would say as a parent, an impulse purchase?"
why should we want them (kids) to have impulse purchases in the app?
uhhh because it can benefit their enjoyment mumble
isn't that an irresponsible way to deal with young customers
uhm
mtx now has precedent in court because of this
Judge: "If Apple offered you a deal for only yourself, would you have taken it?"
Yes
Tim really said this, destroying his own fighting for the little man stance he built his entire case around
Tim also admits live he could have just made a web based store but didnt because he wanted to use apple's payment system for free and encourage kids to impulse buy vbucks
on the judge being frustrated with epic's answers so far
What is your backup plan if I don't? (agree with epic's case)
Um...if Apple's actions are lawful...then they would have the right to remove us.....and we would have to not support the um....iOS platform....
TIM AS A WITNESS OVER
Our next witness is Benjamin Simon, the CEO of Yoga Buddhi, which makes a yoga app. YB submitted some exhibits where customers keep emailing because they discover it's got a cheaper price outside the App Store, but it can’t advertise that in-app.
As expected, Simon is laying out some well-known complaints about the App Store: you have to get updates reviewed, which delays them; you can’t support refunds personally; and you can’t tell users inside the app that they can sign up cheaper elsewhere.
why did you sign the contract
Uhhhhhhhh
Its pretty difficult to change our prices so we have to keep making new products for prices even though we didn't think about our prices prior to the creation of the product before hand
When your customers want a refund who handles this on the IOS app?
Only the apple service team can give out refunds
Apple dosen't have APIs to give out refunds through app
If apple is processing the info and you're paying 30 percent and someone issues out a refund you don't get your 30 percent?
Do you get your 30% if they refund?
No...uh...yeah....what? Can you repeat the question?
All we can do is tell consumers to go ask Apple for a refund
Apple normally dosen't give out refunds unless it's in 24 hours.
tl;dr we would refund everything for everyone if they are sad but we can't because apple is bad
This is also around the time when tim cook's reply to sweeney's rant surfaced
apple crossexams downdog
they got caught trying to evade the app review guidelines
Were you aware you were violating apple policies?
Yes
Were you aware you were lying to apple?
Yes
you didn't negotiate
did you try to negotiate
no
Do you find it objectionable that Apple has millions of devs that they don't negotiate terms with?
silence
Do you negotiate various terms of your agreement with Down Dog customers?
No
Do you find that objectionable?
Not necessarily
It's a yes or no
No
DAY 2 is over.
Day 3
Lawyer: So on Xbox
Microsoft exec: Which Xbox
Lawyer: The Xbox
Microsoft: Do you mean Xbox the all-in-one entertainment system or Xbox on PC
Lawyer: What
this kind of back and forth just to confuse each other without any outside development so skip over to
day 3 over (more later)
Day 4
tim sweeney seething dropped
Master Card is saying there was an EGS data breach.
not just any breach, 106m email's worth of data breaches despite tim saying "privacy is important" the other day
sony gets sued over the stifling crossplay immediately after epic leaked that shit the other day
dorito pope stopped streaming at TGA's twitch because daddy sony is mad epic is blowing NDA left and right
furfag "4 out of 5 women are raped every day" overgrowth dev sues valve over MUH MONOPOLIES in concert with the ongoing epic's court caseI decided that I would provide my game "Overgrowth" at a lower price to take advantage of the lower commission rates. I intended to write a blog post about the results.
But when I asked Valve about this plan, they replied that they would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM.
Judge's starting to get uncomfortable with documents being uploaded without her seeing it that contain information of parties irrelevant to this case. Epic's lawyers are citing this as relevant business documents, but she's unhappy that things are being uploaded and all she was given was a binder.
Epic: I'm just asking for clarity
Judge: Are you suggesting that I am not?
For context, it's never a good idea to try and argue against a judge's suggestion
Day 4 over
Day 5
most played games (unique playes) last 7 days on EGS
meanwhile steam has 62.6 million unique players A DAY
epic returns to take the stand (not tim though), some other epic exec named allison
Fall Guys confirmed to be EGS exclusive in the future
Second party games will be lifetime exclusives
Epic has 14 second party games in development right now
ooblets dev's spergout and tim's tweetstorm are used against epic exec today
on security
does epic take security seriously?
yes
are you aware of epic ever facing any data breaches?
can you repeat the question
are you aware of epic ever facing any data breaches?
i need more context
context + are you aware of epic ever facing any data breaches?
i need more context
For context, here's what happens if epic rep says anything at all about this
Say no
Demonstrates that you are negligent about being informed of your platform's security given that it had a breach two days ago
Say yes
Demonstrates that your platform is insecure and puts customers at risk
on features
epic doesn't have as many features as the other stories correct?
uhhh i dont get what you mean, is that sarcasm?
on itchio
it's a game store inside EGS correct?
yes
these apps on the catalogue is all games?
yes
do you understand while itchio has age verification, ever since your acquisition, from EGS one can buy games directly without verification?
yes
you understand there's UNSPEAKABLE genre of games damaging to children's minds there
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i need context
infos about epic's revenue graphs, acquisition tactic also brought to light
EGS made $14.5 million in August 2020
Horizon Zero Dawn was 5% of total sales
HZD grossed $725,000
At MSRP of $50, it sold about 14,500 units (probably not 100% correct though since regional pricing isn't taken into account)
7.5 million people signed up for EGS the day GTA V went F2P
Day 5 Over