Unknown Realm: The Siege Perilous
What is this?
This page tries to document everything known about the game. No speculations, just facts with sources.
The quotes were sources from the kickstarter updates & comments made by StirringDragon, the twitter comments by Bruce and Laura and the official website for the game
As statements have been revised, changed, or contradicted, this page attempts to record statements chronologically.
The funding period was from Dec 2016 to Jan 2017, with a set goal to release the game in Dec 2017.
The release date
The release date was pushed into the future several times:
| Release date | Quote | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 2017 | No project is risk free, but the good news is that any risks we foresee come from the “slight delay” column instead of the “failure to deliver” column." | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| Dec 2017 | Stallone7: Questions for this after ks paypal thing: how long is this door open? StirringDragonGames: @Stallone7 Obviously it won't be completely open ended because we have a delivery date to hit | Early 2017 | Kickstarter comments |
| Spring 2018 | Our current plan is to release the game digitally in Spring 2018 and we anticipate shipping out physical rewards a few months after that. | Nov 2017 | Unknown Realm November Update |
| Spring 2018 | Hey everyone! We’re still alive and working hard on your game. Here's a short update: We’re working on several key things at the moment including getting ready for GDC next month, and preparing to launch on Steam this spring. | Early 2018 | Kickstarter comments |
| -???- | Just to reiterate, we want to make sure the next release date we publish is one we will be certain to meet. Until that date is set in stone, we're avoiding making public projections when there are still moving parts. | Mid 2019 | Kickstarter comments |
| May 2020 | As of right now, our current plan is to have the digital game released within a year. | May 2019 | Spring 2019 Update |
| 2020 | We have a plan to release Unknown Realm in 2020 | Jan 2020 | Update #35 "Winter 2019: Are You With Us?" |
| -???- | Do we know when the will be completed? No. And unlike other developers, we're not going to make up a release date just to keep people off our backs, or make you feel better. | Multiple times in 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
Further quotes about the release date
| Release date | Quote | Date of Quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| -???- | None of those dates were release dates, they were statements of our intention/plans | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
| -???- | release dates are luxuries of companies with funding and personnel | May 2022 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/DYhzx |
| -???- | Yes, my game is taking forever, but at least I don't keep lying about release dates over and over each year. 🤣 | Aug 2022 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/YLIkU |
| -???- | EVERYONE: It's been years already, when is your games release date? ME: "The future is not set. There is no fate, but what we make for ourselves.". | Feb 2023 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/PoXLm |
| -???- | Laura points out that contributing to the project does not guarantee that you will get something in return. | Feb 2023 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/u7cTc |
| -???- | Same goes for Bruce | Sep 2024 | https://i.imgur.com/cg1KaDt.jpeg |
Game progression
This section tries to piece together how far the game is done.
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| "Our budget is for a fixed production run of cartridges and we can't produce more without breaking that budget." | The cost of the cartridge can only be accurately estimated once the game has reached a certain level of progress. | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| "Over the last few years we’ve been working on this project full-time to build the custom game engine and all the supporting technology necessary to make this game a reality" | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| "We’ve created approximately 90% of the 1500 graphic tiles along with many of the NPC portraits for the game. The remaining portraits are reserved for various portrait level backers on Kickstarter and will need to be completed. We'd like to recruit an additional pixel artist to help out with the remaining portraits and tiles." | Graphics almost done? | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| We've completed approximately half of the game music and plan on collaborating with additional musicians to complete the remaining songs plus modern versions to fully utilize our hybrid-soundtrack technology. | Music halfway done? | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| The game itself is currently in a pre-alpha state and nearing feature completion. The game world and locations are already designed, although names and such are subject to change. The bulk of the remaining development time on the game side will be spent finishing game levels, puzzles, NPC dialog, and the normal play-testing and bug fixing. | "pre-alpha state and nearing feature completion"; sounds like the biggest hurdles have been tackled. Also note that all screenshots in the campaign are labeled as "pre-alpha". | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| "At this stage, the game itself is already in pre-alpha and most of the major technology hurdles have already been cleared." | See above | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| "We're aware there's a possibility that having our expected delivery date in December may cause delays for some international backers due to holiday shipping volume." | Reinforcing the release date | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
These statements were made in the initial kickstarter campaign. The following statements about the progress were made after the funding period:
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| "We are still in the process of creating in-game backer content and fitting it into the game." | - | Sep 2017 | Unknown Realm August Update |
| "Yep, still here and still putting in 10+ hours a day on the only #8bit #rpg that everyone loves to hate 😉 " | - | Apr 2020 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/bFnQo |
| "@StirringDragon just did a rough count of our #pixelart tiles for #UnknownRealm... we’re approaching 2000 tiles. With revisions, we’ve probably spent almost a year of our life just on pixel tiles for this game. 🤯#" | Apparently the tilecount grew since the initial campaign | May 2020 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/QuXs8 |
| "we’re working hard on the game. We’ll post an update on KS when we have something newsworthy to share." | - | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
| "I can say this, the game is in alpha and right now we are primarily in the “adding content” and “cutting unnecessary features” phase. Progress is being made and we’re getting closer to being done. When we’re get there, you’ll know. ;)" " | - | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
| "we only have two states at SDG: "Not done" or "Done" - the soundtrack is not done yet, but when it is it will include music from Chris H, Bruce and a few other musicians." | At the point of the campaign "approximately half of the game music", four years after the campaign the music is still unfinished | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
| "The SDG Guild doesn't bring in enough to sustain full time work, but it does help us keep the internet working and the website up (barely). Our goal is to find a way to get back to working full time on the game so we can get it done as quickly as possible and give a more concrete timeline of when the game can be finished." | Apparently working on the game full time (see entry #2 of this table) has stopped. Also a website with business mail and a wordpress installation is about $15/month. | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comments |
| "Working on 1) A FAQ to address commonly asked questions. 2) A beta testing application so we can begin the process of screening testers for the game." | - | July 2022 | Kickstarter comments |
| Coming soon…👀 | 10 months later they teased the beta testing platform. However, it was easily accessible for any curious eyes. | May 2023 | 1 2 |
| This isn’t a press event, it’s a private party(...) | Another 16 months later a "Beta Preview Party" was announced. Not for the backers, but for attending Portland Retro Gaming Expo guests. | Sep 2024 | 1 |
All the released screenshots ans graphics were made and published when the campaign was active, with these exceptions:
1
2
Game cartridge
The game is to be released for PC and for C64. Games for the C64 can be released on different media. Either on a datasette, which has little space and very long loading times, a floppy disk, with faster loading times or a cartridge.
A cartridge offers many possibilities, but is technically very complex. According to the campaign, Unknown Realm is such a large game that it can only be played on a custom cartridge. A prototype of this cartridge exists, and according to quotes, the production costs can already be estimated.
To cut it short: Developing a cartridge is very complex and time-consuming.
Quotes about the cartridge and it's progress
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| This game will not work on the the EasyFlash (not enough memory) and the engine was created along with the cartridge | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| Fast, near-instantaneous load times thanks to cartridge made exclusively for Unknown Realm. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| We can't forget the custom C64 game cartridge. This is not only the largest 8-bit RPG on cartridge ever, our cartridge will also have a custom injection molded case designed to look like a book, hence the name “Book of Lore” cartridge. | Injection molds are very expensive, starting at about $10K | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| There are no off the shelf engines or game cartridges that can be used for a game like this. It's all handcrafted down to the last bit. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| After Kickstarter our functional cartridge prototype for the C64 will be converted into a smaller form factor required for it to fit into our game cartridge case. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| We’ve secured manufacturers for the physical rewards including [...] the manufacturing shop where our injection molded game cartridge will be made. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| We're confident that we've developed our cartridge prototype to a point where we know there aren't any insurmountable obstacles to producing the final version. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| I couldn’t remember if our cart works on the C128, but a friend just sent me one, so I decided to give it a try! This is REV 3 of the prototype I built for our KS running 7yo ROMs. The game looks so different now!😬 We’ll obviously need more REVs after we ship the PC version.😆 | Eight years after starting the kickstarter campaign the cartridge is shown for the first time. | Apr 2024 | Video on twitter.com |
The following quotes were made after the kickstarter went live:
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Our budget is for a fixed production run of cartridges and we can't produce more without breaking that budget. | Cost of the cartridge is somewhat fixed | Dec 2016 | UPDATE #6 |
| All of over 1000 code and data files gets compiled and packed into 2MB, the largest 8-bit RPG every on cartridge! =12 floppies! | - | Dec 2016 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/ququs |
| The cartridge is 16Mbits. It's designed to work specifically with our game engine and won't be re-flashable. | - | Dec 2016 | Comment section of Update #6 |
| our game loads up a town in about 2 seconds flat thanks to this cartridge. | - | Jan 2017 | UPDATE #7 |
| if we get 100 RTs + 300 likes on this tweet, @stirringdragon will do an extra post-stream segment on our #cartridge dev and prototypes for #UnknownRealm! | No update was given since the tweet got 18 retweets and 21 likes (checked Jan 2023) | May 2020 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/JPmkT |
| Right now the plan is still our custom cartridge, but we might warm up to the idea of also supporting the 1541-Ultimate, only if there’s enough demand though because it would require a major rewrite. | - | Apr 2022 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/SVtDv |
| Where did you get the impression that no work was done on the c64 cartridge? We actually built a working prototype of the c64 cartridge and the case BEFORE Kickstarter. | - | Mid 2022 | Kickstarter comment |
Updates
Kickstarter updates aren't mandatory. To quote the website itself: Backers appreciate regular, insightful, and honest updates. Don’t be hesitant to communicate delays or changes to your original plans — or to just check in. (If backers don’t hear from you for a while, they worry that you may be having trouble doing the work you promised.)
Unknown Realm had very detailed updated when the funding was successful:
| Year | Number of updates | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| 2017 | 11 | - |
| 2018 | 3 | Game was past due now |
| 2019 | 2 | - |
| 2020 | 4 | Three of these updates weren't about the game but needing more money |
| 2021 | 0 | - |
| 2022 | 0 | The only updates are given in the Kickstarter comment section. Unfortunatly they just iterate old facts and don't show anything new. |
| 2023 | 0 | - |
| 2024 | 2 | In one update it was announced that they will visit the Portland Retro Gaming Expo, in the other update old screenshots were shown. It is possible that the activity is intended to signal to trade fair visitors that the Kickstarter campaign has not been abandoned. |
Quotes about giving updates
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| One final note, once this campaign ends (it's hard to believe we're almost there), we will continue to post private backer-only game development updates here | One private update was provided | Jan 2017 | Some Exciting Developments! |
| We look forward to sharing our progress with you along the way! | - | Jan 2017 | We did it!! |
| Going forward, we intend to start posting development related updates here at least once a month or when there's something important to share. | They held that promise until the game was past due | Jan 2017 | Late Backer / Paypal Option is Live! |
| Like most Kickstarter creators, at some point we will be moving our updates away from Kickstarter (after release) and we'll use our website for that purpose | Most creator's don't move their updates to the comment section. No news were posted to the website. | Jan 19 | SDG New Year's Resolution #1 Unlocked: Update Website! * |
| Just to reiterate what we've already said in the past: we don't plan on spending time doing development blog updates (one of our stretch goals was a book about that will include that stuff. | - | Early 2019 | Kickstarter comments |
| We’ve found that it’s all too easy to lose momentum when you spend time telling people about what you’re making instead of actually making it. In our experience, frequent project updates, dev blogs, etc. can be de-motivating for a variety of reasons. | - | Jan 2019 | Indie Game Marketing – Stirring Dragon Style |
| Anyone with concerns about our update practices should refer back to our May update, where we discussed that issue at length. | - | Mid 2019 | Kickstarter comments |
| [...], normal updates will continue to be posted on Kickstarter for all backers. Behind-the-scenes is an additional thing that we didn't offer during Kickstarter...not everyone will want or be interested in the behind-the-scenes stuff, but it's a way to give a little extra to people who are interested providing additional monthly support (just like Patreon). | Those updates are expected for all backers | Jan 2020 | Answer to backer question @ update |
| If you see us communicating here in the comments section, you should consider that an update from us. | - | Mid 2021 | Kickstarter comment section |
| We've always been right here with our faces, never hiding, always available, always transparent. | - | Apr 2023 | |
| I wait until I get at least 10% of backers requesting an update before I write one. | - | May 2023 | |
| How about instead of creating 100’s of anonymous accounts to post the same stupid comments over and over again, you come on live video with me right now. Mano e Mano. Show your face and I’ll answer any question you have. Live on camera. I’m giving you a chance to fully air all your concerns with the world as one of my supposed backers. Let’s go. | Unfortunatly both parties were not able to schedule a meeting. | Sep 2024 |
Feelies
The so called "feelies" are merchandise styled to fit the game. These items were heavily marketed and are basically promotional items made by seperate companies where you have to send in an design/image. Most of them were bundled with the kickstarter pledges. This strategy was
Items marked with an ❌ haven't been seen or talked about since mentioned in the campaign.
Items marked with an ✔️ have either been released as planned or sold on their website.
Items marked with an ➖ See comment
| Item | Status | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Adventurer’s Guide | ❌ | - |
| Bestiary Art Book | ➖ | Mini version was released |
| Cloth Map | ➖ | Mini version was released |
| Commemorative Bookmark | ✔️ | Sent to backers |
| Engraved Wooden Keyboard Overlay (C64/C128) | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Engraved Wooden Keyboard Overlay (PC) | ❌ | - |
| Game Soundtrack CD | ❌ | - |
| Hint Book | ❌ | - |
| Keyboard Overlay (PC) | ❌ | - |
| Keyboard Overlays (C64/C128) | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Limited Edition Pug Companion Figurine | ❌ | - |
| Lute String | ✔️ | Joke item; a piece of string. Sent to backers |
| Making-of-Book | ➖ | Will have an own section below |
| Mandlebrot’s Cipher (Metal) | ❌ | - |
| Parchment Paper Map | ❌ | - |
| Players Reference Card | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Quest Cards | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Quest Journal | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Realm Stone | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
| Signed Certificate of Authenticity | ❌ | - |
| Stirring Dragon Games Royal Signet Ring | ❌ | - |
| Wooden Tavern Dice | ➖ | Prototype was shown |
Quotes about the feelies
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Our current physical reward prototypes will be going through at least one more art revision before they’re final. | - | Dec 2016 | Kickstarter campaign tab |
| This month we've been doing some of the unavoidable administrative tasks [...], setting up contracts, finalizing our production schedule and placing orders for some of the physical components for the game. | - | Mar 2017 | February Update |
| So far, we have about half of the custom engraved tavern dice completed and we expect the rest to be finished by May. We are also working closely with our manufacturers to begin production on several other physical feelies. | - | Mar 2017 | Unknown Realm March Update! |
| Lots of work on physical feelies this month. Quest journals are now in production and expected to be finished by the end of May. Same goes for the remaining tavern dice and Realm Stones. | - | May 2017 | Unknown Realm April Update |
| Our current plan is to release the game digitally in Spring 2018 and we anticipate shipping out physical rewards a few months after that. | - | Nov 17, 2017 | Unknown Realm November Update |
Other stuff
The Making-of-book
The book was a stretch goal that has been reached.
This book was mentioned in update #29:
*There are a lot of other details we want to share with you about this journey, but in the interest of saving time, we’re reserving a lot of those for the Making-Of book. *
In 2022, they tweeted about the book: "If anyone knows a good game industry "making of book" writer please DM me." Twitter
Megafounder
To quote the website itself: "Where projects continue after their #Kickstarter campaign."
Through this platform, the financing of the game and fundraising should continue.
The website was shady and very abruptly stopped its service while the post-funding was going on.
The Guild
"We also have a great community with our Patreon-style “Guild” for people who want to extend some extra support and get a little more direct access to us and the behind the scenes “sausage-making” process (check out our website for more info). We do once a month video hangouts with Guild members on Discord and share about what we’ve been working on, along with some other perks. It’s kind of like a backstage pass for Unknown Realm fans." - StirringDragonGames
It is unclear how many updates were shared there.
"I signed up with the private backer 'guild' for a few months late last year and the updates there were lacking too, so I canceled. There were only a couple things shared over the course of the year since they announced their special backer guild, but no 'substance' that would indicate the game was being worked on or where it was in regards to completion. It was just more of the lackluster kind of updates, but on a much smaller scale just like we have seen here." - Asgard Gamewerks, Kickstarter comments
Another funding event
The idea to start another fundraising is played with
Stalkers
GDC & other events
Everything about attending or not attending GDC, an event to meet other game developers and present your game.
| Quote | Comment | Date of quote | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| "...we showed some never seen before footage of Bruce presenting an early version of the game at CommVex in 2012" | Oldest documented version of the game. | UPDATE #15 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/KsKP0 |
| "...we were thrilled to chat briefly with a few of the people who've inspired us over the years." | Attended GDC 2018 | Mar 2018 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/AfYMh |
| "Anyone who runs into us around GDC tomorrow and says the secret word..." | Attended GDC 2019 | Mar 2019 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/NhDF6 |
| "...I have been personally banned from presenting my game at #C64 related events and from even joining threads to answer questions about my own game just so others jealous devs & their friends can spew FUD about how bad I treat people because I don't share stuff! #Liars" | The creators participate in threads but none of their known accounts is banned. They retreat when people start asking questions about the progress. | May 2022 | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/s21UF |
| "Awesome! Planning to be there, we’re on the wait list for a booth." | Apparently planning to attend Portland Retro Gaming Expo 2024 | Sep 2024 | https://i.imgur.com/E5TYnwB.png |
| SOON->PRGE | Planning to attend Portland Retro Gaming Expo 2024 | Sep 2024 | https://i.imgur.com/ftDmk5p.png |
Unknown Realm 2
Funds
"Also basic math is fun. $126k, minus dropped pledges = $125k, after KS’s 10% cut…we ended up with ~$114k. BEFORE taxes or anything else…that’s an absolute fortune of ~$62/day for us live off of. For the work of two people. We’re definitely rolling in the cash. 🙄" IndieLauraSDG, Dec 2022 (https://ghostarchive.org/archive/msJJf)
The funding goal was $65,536. With this amount, the game should have been released by Dec 2017 at the latest, according to calculations.
Websites
Their websites, https://stirringdragon.games and https://unknownrealm64.com went defunct in early Nov 2023. Bruce stated on twitter that he isn't able to keep the sites up since merchandise sales aren't covering the server cost anymore. The websites came back online after about two weeks.
Remarks about this page
All info was gathered at or before Jan 2023. Some tweets were deleted between collecting the data and creating this site, so they have been left out.
"Kickstarter comments" as a source refers to this page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stirringdragongames/unknown-realm-an-8bit-rpg-for-pc-and-commodore-64/comments
Unfortunatly a lot of comments of backers who withdrew their pledges are lost.
If you spot any errors or have to contribute anything (with sources), please contact me at larsericcson@proton.me
CC BY: Licensees may copy, distribute, display, perform and make derivative works and remixes based on it only if they give the author or licensor the credits (attribution) in the manner specified by these.
If you want to make a youtube video about this mess, feel free to use any information gathered here!